Welcome to Leadership in the Line of Fire with your host, Brad Hauck. Join Brad as he dives into the heat of leadership challenges where the flames of business uncertainty meet the hard earned lessons of firefighting. Embrace change, master agility and become the trusted leader guiding your team through the smoke. Get ready to ignite your leadership journey. Welcome back to Leadership in the Line of Fire. One of the hardest parts of leadership isn't dealing with difficult people. It's leading people who think, communicate and work differently from how you do it. In the fire service as well as in business, teams are made up from people of different backgrounds and they have different experiences and different ways of seeing the world. The goal isn't to make everybody think the same. The goal is to get everybody moving in the same direction. Today we're looking at how great leaders build trust, adaptive style and get the best from the people who aren't like them. So let's get into it. Being an officer in a volunteer fire station is quite a unique experience. On one hand, you've got to run, command and keep the station running and people safe when they're on fires. And on the other hand, you're working with a mixed bag of people from all, all walks of life, from judges to tradies, all sorts of jobs and careers and experiences and education levels. Unlike a normal workplace, none of us is being paid and that brings in a different way of leading. I've often said that working with volunteers is very much like running a business. Except in a business, when you pay people, you think that you can instruct them on what you want done and they pretty well have to go and do it or they need to go and find another job. With volunteers, we need to phrase things in a way that people want to do the job that needs to be done. So leadership becomes even more important in an unpaid position. In fact, I've had the conversation with plenty of business leaders over the years saying that there's noticeably a change in the workplace. People will just leave a business because they no longer want to work there and no amount of money will actually make them stay. It really depends on a whole range of factors. So in the end, as a leader in a business, it's often that you're working with volunteers who just happen to be being paid by you. So how do we lead these people and get them to do what we need to do in a safe way so that everybody gets to go home at the end of the day? By the way, if you want to go deeper into this fire ground lessons, grab your copy of my book Run towards the flames@Amazon.com it's packed with storeys and strategies from over 20 years of firefighting and also in business, leading a successful marketing company. Well, how do we lead these people? Well, the first thing you need to understand is that different doesn't mean difficult. The people who frustrate you often the most are people with different backgrounds and different worldviews than you. They're not necessarily wrong views, they're just very different to your own. Great leaders have to learn from these people. You have to understand their motivations, their personalities and their backgrounds instead of trying to mould them into exactly the way you think. You're never going to be able to do that. You can get people moving forward with you, but they are not you and they will never be you. Yes, they will take on some of the things you teach them and they will take on some of the leadership skills that you display if they choose to follow you. But again, it's a choice. So while people are all different, it doesn't mean they're going to be more difficult to work with. It just means you've got to spend a little bit of time understanding the people under your command. It's not easy when you only see the people infrequently. So, for example, at the fire station, we train on a Tuesday night, and the people that we have, a core group of people, then there's other people that come some weeks and not others. So I don't see them as much. I don't know them as well. The one thing I have learned is that when I spend a day in a truck or a week in a truck with people on deployment, I learned so much more about them and what makes them tick. Their background, their family, their things that they love. All those elements that I'm not going to learn just at one training night. And it's no different in the workplace. Some people you see every day, some people are remote working, other people come in for one day a week, and it is really hard to kind of understand them as much as you probably want to. That doesn't mean that you can't lead them. Depending on where they are in your organisation, you can work with their supervisors. Their supervisor will know them better. So remember the chain of command and use it effectively as well to lead people. That said, it never hurts. Spending time with someone, working on a project together, getting down in the dirt and learning how other people work will teach you so much more about your own leadership skills. You yourself are a difficult person. Don't lie to yourself and tell yourself that you're easygoing and nothing phases you and your great leader all the time, because you're not. You're human. You are difficult to someone else. What they find easy, you find hard. What you find easy, they find hard. And so the times that you think that you're being very reasonable, sometimes you're actually being very unreasonable. And that's one of the reasons why I like to have a team around me, because my team can take my instructions and reinterpret them into better words sometimes. Other times they can take that information and spread it in a different way, so that everybody understands what I'm trying to achieve without me insulting them, upsetting them and causing problems. And we all do that because no one is perfect. Everybody has their good days and their bad days. And as I said before, some people you will connect with straight away and they will just follow you. And other people you'll be like, I've known this person for, like, six years and yet I still feel like I know nothing about them. And that's really frustrating as a leader, because I know my leadership style. I like to know the people who are under my command. I think it's really important. But I've also learned to accept there's some people I won't know as well as others. Now, I may get the chance down the track where we might be out in a truck for a day and I'll get to know them better, or we might be working on a project at my company and I'll get to know that person better because I'm working in close quarters with them, but it's not always going to be there. The key thing here is just because people are different doesn't mean they're difficult. It just means they have an entirely different way of looking at the world than you do. You should stop leading people the way you want to be led. One firefighter wants clear instructions. Another wants autonomy to be able to think for themselves. One employee wants public recognition and another wants private feedback because they don't want anything to do with the public. You need to adapt your style to the person, not to your preference of leadership. It's often that we have our styles that we apply in every situation, and that will not work because of the personalities involved. I know from working with a friend of mine who specialises in disc, which is personality tests, that everybody has different personalities and doing that sort of testing actually helps you understand the different people and how best to motivate, work with, discuss all those sorts of things. So it doesn't hurt to actually do some of those tests, even if it's only just the cheap free one you find online. As a leader, getting your people to do those is a fun exercise, can actually be quite hilarious. And I know many times I've done it with different teams and it's really funny because everyone goes, oh, yeah, of course you're like that, or, oh, I didn't realise you were that way inclined. It really depends on the personalities in the room. But overall, my experience with doing those sorts of things has been quite interesting. It's been quite a great learning experience and a lot of fun. So you have your way of leading, they have their way, they want to be led. The key is understanding how to get people to do what you need them to do. One person, you might just go, go and do this. Another person, you'd say, can you please go and do this? I need to get it because of this reason, that reason, another reason. Different people require different information to be able to move forward. And it's important that some people want context because they just need to understand. Like, I'm the sort of person that's like, why? Why always comes to mind with me. And I know it annoys the hell out of the people who lead me sometimes, but I really actually need to understand why. Once I understand why they want to do something, I'm fine with it. I'm not actually being difficult. I just need a little bit more context so that I can apply it in my worldview. The other thing is that as a leader myself, once someone gives me the why they want to do something, I can then explain it in different ways to other people. Otherwise, you get this situation where, as a leader, someone says, go and do this. And you go to your team and say, we've got to go and do this. And the first thing they say is, why? What's the point of doing that? Why do we need to go there? Why do we need to do that? So, again, understanding that when you are working with people, you have to lead the way that they need leading. So one of the great things you can do is when you're briefing people is actually to do that, is there any questions? And be honest, you are wanting them to ask questions. And don't punish people for asking questions. And if someone has a complex question, you might release the rest of the team and say, okay, I'll just take you aside and show you that. Because the rest of the team might get frustrated as leaders themselves in listening to the long explanation they don't need it, they get it. They've got what they need to move forward, so I think about that as well. But give people the opportunity to get the information they need from you as a leader, so that they're getting led the way they need to be led. Always with your team, start building bridges before you need. It's interesting. Trust is much easier to build during calm periods than when everything is going crazy. You need to invest the time getting to know your people before the pressure hits. There's obviously lots of ways you can do this. Working with the teams is the first step. The second step is social events. Social events gives you just a bit of time to talk about something. Another place I've found that's really great for building bridges is actually community events. So we'll sometimes take a fire truck down to a local community event and we answer questions from the public. But while we're not doing that, we're standing around and we'll start talking about stuff like any group of people will. And that allows you to start to build those bridges. It allows you to understand people's lifestyles. Simple questions like, what did you get up to this weekend? And actually being interested are really important. And I really enjoy those times spent with my crews because it gives me a chance to get them, know them as people. And often on those days too, their family will wander up and say hi, and you get to meet their family and there's just so much more to it. And you might say, well, we don't do community events, but what about conferences? What about booths at different places? Networking opportunities? They're all times when you can talk to people out of the direct context of the office or the workplace. It gives you that chance. And then from a brigade perspective, you're not just training or on a fire or a rescue or whatever it happens to be. That little bit of extra time helps you build the bridges. And the reason you want to do that, of course, is when you're under pressure and people and they trust you, they will respond to your instructions more positively. We have an on season and an off season being volunteer firefighters and specialising in bushfire. So we have one half of the year, realistically, where there's not many fires. We might get cyclones and floods and things, but we're not the lead agency for that. So during that season, that's the time when it's really good to catch up with people. And not just the people in my own brigade and station, but people from other stations in the local area or out of Our area, that's when we catch up. We build those connections and then the next time there's a big fire on and we all kind of run into each other on the trucks, we've got things in common that we can talk about or give each other a bit of stick over and stir each other up for a bit of fun. Certainly when it gets quiet sometimes it's a bit of the Australian way to have a bit of fun with each other. So don't waste that time. Build your bridges while you actually have the calm to take advantage of. Because when it's busy, you don't have time for that. Make sure you're focusing on your mission, not the method. As a leader, you need to be focused on exactly where you're going. The method's going to change. That's the first thing I learned about firefighting, was that what you expect will not be the same when you arrive. Two people can achieve the same outcome using different approaches. So let them. The goal is to complete the mission. You give people the tools, you give them the goal. For example, we're going to contain this fire on the left flank by 2pm this afternoon. Alpha sector's here, Bravo sector's there. November sector and October sector are all around, sorry, Oscar sector over there. And you give them what they need and then they put their crews where they want to be. They decide how they're going to actually control the fire. And if they decide that it needs a back burn, then they get permission for the back burn or whatever it is. But the point is, they know the mission. They know what they're doing. How they apply that is up to them. They've been trained a specific way, you know they're going to use certain techniques and tools because that's what they've been trained and they know works so strongly. Just try and avoid conflict over personal preferences when the mission is still being achieved. If you try and micromanage the situation, number one, they're going to hate you. There's nothing worse than a micromanager on a fire or in a project. You need someone who gives you your head to give you the opportunity to lead, to think, to apply. And as you need that, well, so do they. So don't micromanage the situation. Make people very aware of what the mission is, what you're trying to achieve, and by what time and where. Make sure they understand that, because that is ultimately the most important part. Then, as a leader, let them tell you how they want to do it. Let them demonstrate or map it up or whatever it is and then let them do it. If you believe that what they're doing will not complete the mission in time, then step in and ask a few questions, maybe give a few directions, or there may be specific things that you need them to do, in which case you need to lay out those parameters because they need to understand, for example, that they need to protect this structure or they need to have this document completed first before they do everything else. That's again your job as the leader, to pick out those sorts of things and add them in. The mission is really important. And hey, get there. Not so much, as long as it's safe, effective, completes the job, everybody's happy, no one gets hurt, all those sorts of things. Then stop stressing about it, okay? As a leader, let it go. Let them have their head. You'll soon learn as a leader that diversity creates better decisions. The person who thinks differently will spot risks, opportunities and solutions that you won't see. And this is really important. One thing I've learned about volunteer firefighters is that they are very creative. They're all thinkers. Most of them have their own business or they work in high level positions and they are all creative thinkers. So they're very good at solving problems. And this is something I noticed between volunteers and paid staff sometimes, is that they tend to be paid staff tend to be chosen because they're more followers of orders and will stick to the team plan and all that sort of stuff, while volunteers do the same. They are very creative and I believe that's one of the powers that they have, is that knowledge is that application. So the diversity of viewpoints is very powerful. It can also be a pain in the butt as a leader because everybody thinks they know better. So that's why you need to be a strong leader. That's why you need to think about how you want things done before you talk to your teams. So if you've got a plan in place and you are satisfied, that's the right way and you've sought the advice that you need to make the decisions, then stand by your plan. Take their questions, answer them, but say this is how we need it done and then let them go and apply it the way they think is best. The best teams aren't made up of clones. They're made up of people whose strengths complement each other. You don't want clones. I hate working with clones. They're boring, they're not interesting, and they make you do all the heavy lifting because you have to do all the thinking. There's no satisfaction in that, as a leader, what I want to see as a leader is other people stepping up to lead, because I'm not going to be here forever. So I'm looking for leaders that I can trust, that I can hand jobs to and know I can walk away and it'll be completed as expected. So that diversity brings in a whole lot of problems, but a whole lot of good stuff. So don't be stressed by it. When you're in your workplace, you've got people from all walks of life. Some places will hire based on personality types and I understand that, but that's great for certain jobs and it's certainly great for certain organisation. But on the other hand, it can be very bad for organisations. They can actually wither and die because they're lacking these creative people. All the creative people aren't being listened to. Having a diverse team is important. So pick your people carefully. If you're working with volunteers, you take what you get, but learn what their strengths are, learn what their weaknesses are. Again, that calm time when there's no action. Getting to know people and build bridges is really important because it's one of those things where if you're not talking to them and you don't know what they can do, they're not going to tell you. So there's no way to get that information. And that's probably not in their resume either, if you've got a resume. So let people put their point of view forward. I find that using training simulations and things like that is the time to see these people shine. You can go around the table, you can set the scene, you can ask people questions and see what they come back with. It gives you a chance to actually test them without it being a dangerous situation. So as we wrap up, remember, leadership isn't about getting people to become more like you. It's about understanding what makes them different and helping those differences work together towards a common mission and goal. The strongest teams aren't made up with people who all think the same ways. They're not okay. They're made up of people who bring different strengths, perspectives and experience to the table. So here's a question to think about this week. Are you trying to change people? Are you trying to change the people you lead? Or are you learning how to lead the people you have? If this episode hit home, take 60 seconds and share it with a friend you trust. These conversations matter. And if you haven't already, subscribe so you don't miss the next episode, we've got more real world leadership tips. Coming your way. If you want to go deeper into the fireground lessons, grab your copy of Run towards the flames@Amazon.com it's packed with storeys and strategies from over 20 years of fighting fires in the Australian bush and leading a successful marketing business. Please like, share and subscribe. And until next time, stay sharp, stay safe and run towards the flames. Thank you for tuning in to Leadership in the Line of Fire. If today's episode sparked some insights, please share it with your friends and colleagues. Don't forget to hit, like and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Your support fuels this journey. Join us next time as we continue to explore explore leadership lessons from the Fire Line. Until then, keep leading with courage and agility.